Thread for the Mullen complainers (including me)...

I have been complaining about Mullen since he got here. There are so many things he has done good each year and it's almost always the same. QB play is exceptional. What he did with Relf was miraculous, that guy is about as much of a QB as me, and Mullen made him look good. He is an honest and good guy, we don't have issues with our players which is a relief and is a great thing if you have kids that look up to the team. We have a good and honest program.

But always the same problems. FG kicker, nothing to say about this, we all know. Most years we are playing the wrong guy at RB, period. We have lost several games because of this, last year it was most obvious but it wasn't the only year it happened. Look what Aeris is doing right now, he would have been doing the same thing last year from the first game on if not for Holloway. Time clock management issues, throwing the ball all over the field when we should be running, never challenging calls, etc. Same stuff. It has driven me nuts for 8 years.

But, something is different this year. We are clicking, he has the team fired up and is doing everything right. He actually milked the clock in the 2nd half last week, first time I've seen that since he's been here. Defense played with a fire under their ass without all the BS tackling crap and letting the other team back into the game.

I have to think this ole miss stuff is off his back, I think it was much more a detriment as a head coach than any of us can know. He looks like a different person this year, and the team is feeding off of it. I will stand by my complaints for the last 8 years, I saw what I saw each year. However, what I'm seeing right now is what I always thought Mullen could do if he got rid of those other issues. We look incredible. What we did to LSU was criminal, a legit SEC beatdown. There are only a handful of teams in this country that could do that to them, Orgeron or not.

Bottom line is for me, I love what I'm seeing. This is serious football. I always wondered if Mullen had the complete package because of the other issues, but so far this year, it's perfection. Just keep doing what we are doing. If we can keep things up like this I want to think we are on the first part of the next era of Mullen as a coach and not the end of anything.

I think Keenum and Cohen had a come to Jesus with him if he wanted an extension and everyone has benefitted.

We saw some pretty major changes- new DC, country club boy demoted and Looney brought in to help recruiting- which may have lit a fire under Hevesy's ass as well to at least get the o-line to perform sooner, and no public posturing about being open to leaving Starkville. We even found a kicker in week three- before it would have taken Dan until week 6-8 for a major change like that to happen.

That was a great post! You nailed it! I might add that Dan was only 36 when he took the job. I think we have watched the evolution of a coach and his growth right before our eyes. I'm sure the ole miss crap took its toll on him as it would any of us. Working his butt off and those idiots buying players out from under him and screwing with everything he was trying to build. We are I believe entering a golden era in our history and I'm glad I'm here to see it. Thanks for posting that!

HailState

I think the OM situation and Grantham have let him focus on his first love, which is play calling. He is a master chess player when he has the tools to work with.

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Originally Posted by TimberBeast

I have been complaining about Mullen since he got here. There are so many things he has done good each year and it's almost always the same. QB play is exceptional. What he did with Relf was miraculous, that guy is about as much of a QB as me, and Mullen made him look good. He is an honest and good guy, we don't have issues with our players which is a relief and is a great thing if you have kids that look up to the team. We have a good and honest program.

But always the same problems. FG kicker, nothing to say about this, we all know. Most years we are playing the wrong guy at RB, period. We have lost several games because of this, last year it was most obvious but it wasn't the only year it happened. Look what Aeris is doing right now, he would have been doing the same thing last year from the first game on if not for Holloway. Time clock management issues, throwing the ball all over the field when we should be running, never challenging calls, etc. Same stuff. It has driven me nuts for 8 years.

But, something is different this year. We are clicking, he has the team fired up and is doing everything right. He actually milked the clock in the 2nd half last week, first time I've seen that since he's been here. Defense played with a fire under their ass without all the BS tackling crap and letting the other team back into the game.

I have to think this ole miss stuff is off his back, I think it was much more a detriment as a head coach than any of us can know. He looks like a different person this year, and the team is feeding off of it. I will stand by my complaints for the last 8 years, I saw what I saw each year. However, what I'm seeing right now is what I always thought Mullen could do if he got rid of those other issues. We look incredible. What we did to LSU was criminal, a legit SEC beatdown. There are only a handful of teams in this country that could do that to them, Orgeron or not.

Bottom line is for me, I love what I'm seeing. This is serious football. I always wondered if Mullen had the complete package because of the other issues, but so far this year, it's perfection. Just keep doing what we are doing. If we can keep things up like this I want to think we are on the first part of the next era of Mullen as a coach and not the end of anything.

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The truth is simple. There is NO coach in the WORLD that would meet your expectations on a yearly level. The closest thing to perfection has been Nick Saban at a POWER house school. Put Mullen there and he would be as successful as he is.

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Originally Posted by IMissJack

I think the OM situation and Grantham have let him focus on his first love, which is play calling. He is a master chess player when he has the tools to work with.

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He will have even more tools to work with next year- a healthy Dear, Guidry and Heath on the outside, Aeris, Kylin, and Lee at RB, Green and Justin Johnson at TE. Not to mention Deddrick Thomas and Keith Mixon.

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Originally Posted by Coach

The truth is simple. There is NO coach in the WORLD that would meet your expectations on a yearly level. The closest thing to perfection has been Nick Saban at a POWER house school. Put Mullen there and he would be as successful as he is.

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That doesn't mean we shouldn't strive for perfection. Yeah- obviously we'll come up short and never be totally perfect every time out. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't shoot for it. Saban won't be there forever- and look what happened to Alabama after the Bear retired and the time in between before they hired Saban. The same thing will more than likely happen there again.

If we keep amassing talent like we are and are sound in all three phases of the game like we appear to be right now- we can at the very least play with Alabama and may even knock them off every once in awhile.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

That doesn't mean we shouldn't strive for perfection. Yeah- obviously we'll come up short and never be totally perfect every time out. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't shoot for it. Saban won't be there forever- and look what happened to Alabama after the Bear retired and the time in between before they hired Saban. The same thing will more than likely happen there again.

If we keep amassing talent like we are and are sound in all three phases of the game like we appear to be right now- we can at the very least play with Alabama and may even knock them off every once in awhile.

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Exactly and that was always my complaint with Mullen. It always seemed like we were doing good things but didn't care about being great, but we were on the cusp of it. This is the first year that I feel like he is trying to put all the pieces together to be great and not just better than we were before.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

That doesn't mean we shouldn't strive for perfection. Yeah- obviously we'll come up short and never be totally perfect every time out. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't shoot for it. Saban won't be there forever- and look what happened to Alabama after the Bear retired and the time in between before they hired Saban. The same thing will more than likely happen there again.

If we keep amassing talent like we are and are sound in all three phases of the game like we appear to be right now- we can at the very least play with Alabama and may even knock them off every once in awhile.

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So somehow you think we were not? LOL! When was Fitz recruited? The Ol? The DL... That wasn't a meeting held buy the new AD. They didn't suddenly have those guys on the field because Cohen had a come to Jesus meeting. It had to do with Mullen redshirting 19 players at once while you guys complained about a 160 pound back was doing what was asked of him. It had to do with him knowing a lot more about where the team was and planning for the future.

This is why you guys need to pump the brakes. I remember the "Let's fire Mullen now before he ruins Dak" years. Hell, I even remember you guys wanting him gone last year after dropping one to USA. Calls for the back up.. Fitz is a bust.

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Originally Posted by TimberBeast

Exactly and that was always my complaint with Mullen. It always seemed like we were doing good things but didn't care about being great, but we were on the cusp of it. This is the first year that I feel like he is trying to put all the pieces together to be great and not just better than we were before.

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:confused:



What was 2014? I mean my God.... Seriously.... MSU would have missed out on 2014 and this season if you guys would have made the decisions.



/exit thread..... You guys have at it.

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Originally Posted by Coach

So somehow you think we were not? LOL! When was Fitz recruited? The Ol? The DL... That wasn't a meeting held buy the new AD. They didn't suddenly have those guys on the field because Cohen had a come to Jesus meeting. It had to do with Mullen redshirting 19 players at once while you guys complained about a 160 pound back was doing what was asked of him. It had to do with him knowing a lot more about where the team was and planning for the future.

This is why you guys need to pump the brakes. I remember the "Let's fire Mullen now before he ruins Dak" years. Hell, I even remember you guys wanting him gone last year after dropping one to USA. Calls for the back up.. Fitz is a bust.

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Not speaking for Todd, but this was the point of my post. Mullen has done a lot of things right, but he has also done a lot of things wrong. Hell the south alabama game last year was the sum of all of it. He really could have been doing what we are doing right now since Dak got here. But, I don't think he knew how. He is learning. I would have fired Mullen each year after every year because of the issues i mentioned, even after the number 1 year. My point though is that we are seeing something different this year, Todd might be right that Cohen got on him. Personally I dont think that's the case, I think it's that he's free of the ole miss stuff and that we are seeing the real person and coach and that we are seeing him able to do his job the way he really wants to.

I think it's been a combination of the ole miss crap and Dan being extremely young and a little cocky. I've always been a supporter of Dan because I liked what I saw in his character and the way he did things and I was confident he would grow into the role. I think we are seeing his evolution. I read Belichiks book the Evolution of a Coach and Dan has very similar traits as far as intelligence and football iq as well as the arrogance. Bills first shot at Cleveland didn't go so well but people forget that because of what he's accomplished. Belichik blames a lot of his failure there on his arrogance and wanting to do things just his way. There's certainly a learning curve involved. Not saying Dan will become Belichik or Saban but you never know. I feel confident he will be extremely successful here before it's all said and done.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

That doesn't mean we shouldn't strive for perfection. Yeah- obviously we'll come up short and never be totally perfect every time out. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't shoot for it. Saban won't be there forever- and look what happened to Alabama after the Bear retired and the time in between before they hired Saban. The same thing will more than likely happen there again.

If we keep amassing talent like we are and are sound in all three phases of the game like we appear to be right now- we can at the very least play with Alabama and may even knock them off every once in awhile.

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That's cold blooded, man...

A BA of .684 with 1 NC, and 2-3 SECC over the next 2 Post MMDL decades???

The entitled Bammer Millennials shall weep.

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Originally Posted by TimberBeast

Not speaking for Todd, but this was the point of my post. Mullen has done a lot of things right, but he has also done a lot of things wrong. Hell the south alabama game last year was the sum of all of it. He really could have been doing what we are doing right now since Dak got here. But, I don't think he knew how. He is learning. I would have fired Mullen each year after every year because of the issues i mentioned, even after the number 1 year. My point though is that we are seeing something different this year, Todd might be right that Cohen got on him. Personally I dont think that's the case, I think it's that he's free of the ole miss stuff and that we are seeing the real person and coach and that we are seeing him able to do his job the way he really wants to.

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If you would have fired Dan after every year then you would never, ever have a successful coach or have a winning program. All coaches make mistakes. All coaches. You think Saban wishes he had hired someone other than Kiffin? You bet.

Your OP is BS. "See, If Dan had just listened to us all along and gotten a D.C., shown some emotion, played the "right" players, we would have been doing this all along. So let's look at that. You call out clock management - go look at the 2010 Florida game where we didn't have a prayer. You talk about Holloway - maybe the toughest SOB we have ever had - but Aeris has said what made him turn the corner was Boobie telling him last year he had to learn to play a complete game. You create some mythical "come to Jesus" meeting - well maybe Cohen said "how much do you need to make the next leap". Instead of Scott saying "I need that money for new penny loafers".

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Originally Posted by TUSK

That's cold blooded, man...

A BA of .684 with 1 NC, and 2-3 SECC over the next 2 Post MMDL decades???

The entitled Bammer Millennials shall weep.

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Do you think that's why weed and meth sales soared? The pain and sorrow ran so deep and there was no reason to live ********

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Originally Posted by Coach

So somehow you think we were not? LOL! When was Fitz recruited? The Ol? The DL... That wasn't a meeting held buy the new AD. They didn't suddenly have those guys on the field because Cohen had a come to Jesus meeting. It had to do with Mullen redshirting 19 players at once while you guys complained about a 160 pound back was doing what was asked of him. It had to do with him knowing a lot more about where the team was and planning for the future.

This is why you guys need to pump the brakes. I remember the "Let's fire Mullen now before he ruins Dak" years. Hell, I even remember you guys wanting him gone last year after dropping one to USA. Calls for the back up.. Fitz is a bust.

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Coach, that was somewhat due to poor recruiting efforts IMO. The last 2 years Dan has kept saying we were "very young" when in reality those 2 deep were loaded with Srs. and Jrs., especially 2015. This team is really young ... very few Srs.

To me it is somewhat obvious that a fire has been lit somehow with Dan. Not sure what the fire was, but something has changed. Since 2015 look at the off-field coaches hired to help in recruiting, look at the recruiting efforts put forth, etc. Look at all the Jucos that are playing on D and playing at a high level their very first year.

Not only that ... last year the first 6 games we looked like Jr. High team. I can live with losing ... it's tougher when we look so disorganized and totally clueless on the field like a Croom team. And when we won't hit folks.

Another thing (and this could go to the OM NCAA stuff some and could be used in Dan's defense maybe) .. everyone is saying that we're a bunch of 3* and below players this year. Not so. We're loaded with 4* on D. Offense may be mostly 3* and below, but the D is loaded with 4* players on this year's team. 2014 was a bunch of 3* and below players everywhere. So when folks wanna say Collins wasn't a good D coordinator, they're wrong IMO.

It's still early this year (and I'm working real hard to keep my expectations at a reasonable level) but right now I would be pretty disappointed if we don't go at least 10-2. 9-3 I could live with too, but would be a little disappointed by that. Still a good year tho.

I do believe Dan is evolving and maturing into the job better as he gains more experience.

'14 = 10 wins
'15 = 9 wins
'16 = 6 wins with 3 losses on last play/poss
'17 = 3-0

I guess I don't see where Mullen has been bad. After losing the NFL rookie of the year, one of the best NFL defensive rookies, our D.C., and then replacing our D.C. with perhaps the worst one in the game, we were 3 plays from being a 9-win team again.

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Originally Posted by Coach

The truth is simple. There is NO coach in the WORLD that would meet your expectations on a yearly level. The closest thing to perfection has been Nick Saban at a POWER house school. Put Mullen there and he would be as successful as he is.

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THIS

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Originally Posted by Coach

So somehow you think we were not? LOL! When was Fitz recruited? The Ol? The DL... That wasn't a meeting held buy the new AD. They didn't suddenly have those guys on the field because Cohen had a come to Jesus meeting. It had to do with Mullen redshirting 19 players at once while you guys complained about a 160 pound back was doing what was asked of him. It had to do with him knowing a lot more about where the team was and planning for the future.

This is why you guys need to pump the brakes. I remember the "Let's fire Mullen now before he ruins Dak" years. Hell, I even remember you guys wanting him gone last year after dropping one to USA. Calls for the back up.. Fitz is a bust.

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I think Dan was at a stage in his career where he wanted to move on to the next thing and didn't realize at the time that we were the next thing. He got distracted and started looking at other jobs and we dropped a little bit. After he realized that he could do the things he wanted to do and got support from a new AD that is more about winning and has more coaching knowledge from having done it himself he got put back on the right path

Holloway was a good player that was not used properly. Our offense started to turn around last year when we started playing Aeris more like everyone wanted. We lost South Alabama because we played upper classmen that shouldn't have played as much- like Damien Williams, Hokloway up the middle, hired an incompetent DC and used a walk- on kicker that struggled the entire year and wasn't able to make a chip shot field goal. Dan announced on Sunday after the loss that Fitzgerald was starting- so I know that decision wasn't made based on practice. Had Dan not made changes he would have been fired. It's not a coincidence that Stricklin left shortly after the South Alabama loss- he knew what was coming for him.

My stance on Dan has always pretty much been if he wants to be here that's fine- he needs to be all in for MSU and not be actively looking for another job and doing what he is now. If he does not want to be here he needs to leave. I don't think that's the case after the 2015 offseason.

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Originally Posted by Coach

The truth is simple. There is NO coach in the WORLD that would meet your expectations on a yearly level. The closest thing to perfection has been Nick Saban at a POWER house school. Put Mullen there and he would be as successful as he is.

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It's not about being perfect. It's about learning and not making the same mistakes over and over.

Just weighing in here, I think the problems have been a combination of youth/evolution, OM and the AD. When we had the Ninja Dan was young and probably didn't fully see the complete game aspect. Note that we weren't as financially well off then too, Greg was growing things financially. When we got Strick, I'm not sure that he wasn't the issue and I agree with the comment that he probably wanted to spend less so he could have more for his penny loafers. Not to mention OM was really undermining everything he was doing, so I can see him wanting out before his rep took too big of a hit. Now what you have is an ISOB for AD (and a guy that fully understands what it means to compete on a national level), OM is out of the game (for now) and Mullen has been around the block enough to know what it takes. If you doubt that the OM situation wasn't playing a role, look at our current recruiting. We keep trending the way we are and good times are ahead.

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Originally Posted by Coach

So somehow you think we were not? LOL! When was Fitz recruited? The Ol? The DL... That wasn't a meeting held buy the new AD. They didn't suddenly have those guys on the field because Cohen had a come to Jesus meeting. It had to do with Mullen redshirting 19 players at once while you guys complained about a 160 pound back was doing what was asked of him. It had to do with him knowing a lot more about where the team was and planning for the future.

This is why you guys need to pump the brakes. I remember the "Let's fire Mullen now before he ruins Dak" years. Hell, I even remember you guys wanting him gone last year after dropping one to USA. Calls for the back up.. Fitz is a bust.

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well said coach ... this quote is because I can't give you rep points twice in the same thread ...... there will always be some naysayers - it's the nature of man... but it's very good for everyone to be reminded once in a while about how far Mullen has taken us

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Originally Posted by FISHDAWG

well said coach ... this quote is because I can't give you rep points twice in the same thread ...... there will always be some naysayers - it's the nature of man... but it's very good for everyone to be reminded once in a while about how far Mullen has taken us

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It's like they think he (or anybody) should have been able to step in and have an instant national championship program without any ups or downs.

Since he has been here:

Bowling every year after the first season with a 5-2 record

Vs

2 bowl games the decade PRIOR to him getting here.

Coach is the most correct person in this thread. Mullen has been fantastic for Mississippi State, period. Anything else is unrealistic whining.

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Originally Posted by smootness

Coach is the most correct person in this thread. Mullen has been fantastic for Mississippi State, period. Anything else is unrealistic whining.

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Yep.

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Originally Posted by Coach

It's like they think he (or anybody) should have been able to step in and have an instant national championship program without any ups or downs.

Since he has been here:

Bowling every year after the first season with a 5-2 record

Vs

2 bowl games the decade PRIOR to him getting here.

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No one ever said that he should have stepped in and had a national championship, ever. The problem was always that he was very good, borderline great, but he kept making the same mistakes year in and year out. No one expected him to be perfect, but it was damn frustrating to see the same thing over and over again, even though it was better than before. I haven't seen the same mistakes this year, and I'm glad. My point with this thread was that if he keeps going the way he's going we could be looking at the beginning of a new era of Mullen at State, and not just fixing things.

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Originally Posted by Coach

It's like they think he (or anybody) should have been able to step in and have an instant national championship program without any ups or downs.

Since he has been here:

Bowling every year after the first season with a 5-2 record

Vs

2 bowl games the decade PRIOR to him getting here.

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No one has ever said that. I'm just asking that we play the best players and hire the best coordinators possible and that our coach is 100% committed to us and not looking around for jobs publically every offseason.

Just because Dan is better than Charley Shira and Slick Morton it doesn't mean that he should get a total pass on everything and not be criticized for not recruiting well and running a 160 pound running back up the middle. The issues that were brought up by "the whiners" were indeed changed- which means that those people weren't the only ones involved with MSU that saw some issues. It was the people at MSU making the decisions. They encouraged Dan to change some things in exchange for an extension. He did- we gave him the extension- and I'm fine with that. We've ALL benefitted from that. But I guess Keenum and Cohen are "whiners" too since they forced the issue with Dan. Or you actually believe that somehow some magical way Dan just naturally figured everything out in one offseason correcting literally every issue that the team had- after not having done so for the first eight years.

Would you rather be 6-7 every year with a St. Petersburg Bowl knowing that there are a lot of obvious issues that could easily be fixed but "hey! It's better than 1969 MSU football!"? Or have a chance to win 10-13 games a year with a solid team all around? I don't know about you, but I much prefer kicking everyone's ass that we should like La Tech and at least knowing that if we lose we're probably going to look respectable doing so. I already like this season much better than last season so far- and 2015 for that matter. It's not about "expectations"- it's about doing everything within your power to achieve your full potential. And if this team manages to reach 10 wins this year after all of the changes I'd say it's pretty hard for you to argue that the "unrealistic expectations" were that unrealistic in the first place. Of course you won't realize that and you'll keep trying to call out the very people that had the vision enough to speak up about it and help spur the changes so that we could reach our ceiling.

And since I know you don't believe me about the Cohen/Keenum meeting ask yourself this...

Why did we NOT give Dan an extension after a 9 win season in 2015 and we did after a 6-7 season? I'll let everyone ponder that for awhile.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

No one has ever said that. I'm just asking that we play the best players and hire the best coordinators possible and that our coach is 100% committed to us and not looking around for jobs publically every offseason.

Just because Dan is better than Charley Shira and Slick Morton it doesn't mean that he should get a total pass on everything and not be criticized for not recruiting well and running a 160 pound running back up the middle. The issues that were brought up by "the whiners" were indeed changed- which means that those people weren't the only ones involved with MSU that saw some issues. It was the people at MSU making the decisions. They encouraged Dan to change some things in exchange for an extension. He did- we gave him the extension- and I'm fine with that. We've ALL benefitted from that. But I guess Keenum and Cohen are "whiners" too since they forced the issue with Dan. Or you actually believe that somehow some magical way Dan just naturally figured everything out in one offseason correcting literally every issue that the team had- after not having done so for the first eight years.

Would you rather be 6-7 every year with a St. Petersburg Bowl knowing that there are a lot of obvious issues that could easily be fixed but "hey! It's better than 1969 MSU football!"? Or have a chance to win 10-13 games a year with a solid team all around? I don't know about you, but I much prefer kicking everyone's ass that we should like La Tech and at least knowing that if we lose we're probably going to look respectable doing so. I already like this season much better than last season so far- and 2015 for that matter. It's not about "expectations"- it's about doing everything within your power to achieve your full potential. And if this team manages to reach 10 wins this year after all of the changes I'd say it's pretty hard for you to argue that the "unrealistic expectations" were that unrealistic in the first place. Of course you won't realize that and you'll keep trying to call out the very people that had the vision enough to speak up about it and help spur the changes so that we could reach our ceiling.

And since I know you don't believe me about the Cohen/Keenum meeting ask yourself this...

Why did we NOT give Dan an extension after a 9 win season in 2015 and we did after a 6-7 season? I'll let everyone ponder that for awhile.

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that was a pretty good post, Todd. +1

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

No one has ever said that. I'm just asking that we play the best players and hire the best coordinators possible and that our coach is 100% committed to us and not looking around for jobs publically every offseason.

Just because Dan is better than Charley Shira and Slick Morton it doesn't mean that he should get a total pass on everything and not be criticized for not recruiting well and running a 160 pound running back up the middle. The issues that were brought up by "the whiners" were indeed changed- which means that those people weren't the only ones involved with MSU that saw some issues. It was the people at MSU making the decisions. They encouraged Dan to change some things in exchange for an extension. He did- we gave him the extension- and I'm fine with that. We've ALL benefitted from that. But I guess Keenum and Cohen are "whiners" too since they forced the issue with Dan. Or you actually believe that somehow some magical way Dan just naturally figured everything out in one offseason correcting literally every issue that the team had- after not having done so for the first eight years.

Would you rather be 6-7 every year with a St. Petersburg Bowl knowing that there are a lot of obvious issues that could easily be fixed but "hey! It's better than 1969 MSU football!"? Or have a chance to win 10-13 games a year with a solid team all around? I don't know about you, but I much prefer kicking everyone's ass that we should like La Tech and at least knowing that if we lose we're probably going to look respectable doing so. I already like this season much better than last season so far- and 2015 for that matter. It's not about "expectations"- it's about doing everything within your power to achieve your full potential. And if this team manages to reach 10 wins this year after all of the changes I'd say it's pretty hard for you to argue that the "unrealistic expectations" were that unrealistic in the first place. Of course you won't realize that and you'll keep trying to call out the very people that had the vision enough to speak up about it and help spur the changes so that we could reach our ceiling.

And since I know you don't believe me about the Cohen/Keenum meeting ask yourself this...

Why did we NOT give Dan an extension after a 9 win season in 2015 and we did after a 6-7 season? I'll let everyone ponder that for awhile.

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I have a serious question: How did my mother and everyone else with a functioning brain know that running Holloway up the gut with a stud on the bench was absolutely insane? It was Dan's utterly asinine personnel decisions and job flirting every offseason that drove me nuts.

I have a feeling someone chewed his ass pretty hard after the USA loss and told him to stop his BS offseason antics, retarded personnel choices and gameday cargo shorts if he wanted an extension.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

No one has ever said that. I'm just asking that we play the best players and hire the best coordinators possible and that our coach is 100% committed to us and not looking around for jobs publically every offseason.

Just because Dan is better than Charley Shira and Slick Morton it doesn't mean that he should get a total pass on everything and not be criticized for not recruiting well and running a 160 pound running back up the middle. The issues that were brought up by "the whiners" were indeed changed- which means that those people weren't the only ones involved with MSU that saw some issues. It was the people at MSU making the decisions. They encouraged Dan to change some things in exchange for an extension. He did- we gave him the extension- and I'm fine with that. We've ALL benefitted from that. But I guess Keenum and Cohen are "whiners" too since they forced the issue with Dan. Or you actually believe that somehow some magical way Dan just naturally figured everything out in one offseason correcting literally every issue that the team had- after not having done so for the first eight years.

Would you rather be 6-7 every year with a St. Petersburg Bowl knowing that there are a lot of obvious issues that could easily be fixed but "hey! It's better than 1969 MSU football!"? Or have a chance to win 10-13 games a year with a solid team all around? I don't know about you, but I much prefer kicking everyone's ass that we should like La Tech and at least knowing that if we lose we're probably going to look respectable doing so. I already like this season much better than last season so far- and 2015 for that matter. It's not about "expectations"- it's about doing everything within your power to achieve your full potential. And if this team manages to reach 10 wins this year after all of the changes I'd say it's pretty hard for you to argue that the "unrealistic expectations" were that unrealistic in the first place. Of course you won't realize that and you'll keep trying to call out the very people that had the vision enough to speak up about it and help spur the changes so that we could reach our ceiling.

And since I know you don't believe me about the Cohen/Keenum meeting ask yourself this...

Why did we NOT give Dan an extension after a 9 win season in 2015 and we did after a 6-7 season? I'll let everyone ponder that for awhile.

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Very well said.

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Originally Posted by Lloyd Christmas

I have a serious question: How did my mother and everyone else whit a functioning brain know that running Holloway up the gut with a stud on the bench was absolutely insane? It was Dan's utterly insane personnel decisions and job flirting literally every offseason that drove me nuts. I have a feeling someone chewed his ass pretty hard after the USA loss and told him to cut out his BS offseason antics, retarded personnel choices and gameday cargo shorts if he wanted an extension.

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The shorts honestly never bothered me. I can see where a lot of people would see it as unprofessional though.

The thing about Holloway that got me was the different lame excuse every week- especially the blocking one when he was getting blown up and was obviously worse as an inside runner than Aeris. Then it had to change to he didn't know the assignments, the plays, then he had some fumbling problems, didn't spend enough time in the film room. I just find it funny that Aeris started to be a running back guru the same week that Holloway got hurt. I mean, if Dan wanted to "start" Holloway that's fine- but just use him properly.

No question the South Alabama loss was a major wake up call for Dan. And for Stricklin- he left very soon thereafter. I'm not sure that the rumored extension talk was heated or not. I envision it having gone- "you want an extension, do this. And we will help you do it by giving you however much money you need for a real DC."

Had he not done those things- I think he would have been back but would have not gotten the extension and would have been on the hot seat. I'm happy it didn't work out like that though- I want to win no matter who the coach is.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

Why did we NOT give Dan an extension after a 9 win season in 2015 and we did after a 6-7 season? I'll let everyone ponder that for awhile.

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If I recall correctly, we added about 4 off field positions and bumped the entire coaching staff's pay that off season. So, outside of all the rumored "Mullen to XXX" (of which the only one I really believe maybe is Miami), maybe Mullen felt that the best investment was in more resources instead of another half mill a year for him.

Fact is no one knows beyond message board rumors. I still think the real tension between Dan and Stick was about investing in off field staff and coaches salaries. That is somewhere Dan knows we were getting our clock cleaned. Dan pried more money out of Scott after '15 and we start landing guys like T Buck. I think any looking Dan did was not about his salary, it was about finding a place that was all in for what it takes beyond the HC to win at this level - or using it as leverage to get what he wanted from Strick.

Ask yourself this - if the "come to Jesus meeting" took place, how in the hell would a coach negotiate a big raise coming of a 6-7 season and the addition of a million dollar DC? I sure wish my boss would have that type of a come to Jesus with me. You had a shitty year. Here, have a big raise. Here, have more money for your department so you can focus more on what you like about your job. Here, go hire a bad ass hot secretary to run the staff so you don't have to bother. Yeah, that's a come to jesus meeting.

I will never believe our administration sat down with Mullen and gave him any kind of 'wake-up call' or ultimatum. That seems absurd on its face.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

The shorts honestly never bothered me. I can see where a lot of people would see it as unprofessional though.

The thing about Holloway that got me was the different lame excuse every week- especially the blocking one when he was getting blown up and was obviously worse as an inside runner than Aeris. Then it had to change to he didn't know the assignments, the plays, then he had some fumbling problems, didn't spend enough time in the film room. I just find it funny that Aeris started to be a running back guru the same week that Holloway got hurt. I mean, if Dan wanted to "start" Holloway that's fine- but just use him properly.

No question the South Alabama loss was a major wake up call for Dan. And for Stricklin- he left very soon thereafter. I'm not sure that the rumored extension talk was heated or not. I envision it having gone- "you want an extension, do this. And we will help you do it by giving you however much money you need for a real DC."

Had he not done those things- I think he would have been back but would have not gotten the extension and would have been on the hot seat. I'm happy it didn't work out like that though- I want to win no matter who the coach is.

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That's at least the 2nd time you've mentioned Stricklin and suggested he left before he was asked to leave. Strickin left because he was WANTED at UF and they doubled his MSU salary to $1M. With bonuses, he could almost triple his salary to $1.4M. Enough with your fictitious, covert "come to Jesus" meetings.

Good for Dan not playing players for reasons he deems necessary for the growth of the football team AND for the player himself. There's a plethora of things that go on that we as fans are not privy to and thus we make our own assumptions... and if we say them enough, they seem to become the truth.

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Originally Posted by Coach

The closest thing to perfection has been Nick Saban at a POWER house school. Put Mullen there and he would be as successful as he is.

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The ONE thing that the media idiots that write "Mullen is leaving" stories DON'T understand, is that Dan has TOTAL control over the football program .. just like Saban at Alabama. Not every 'Top Ten' programs could he do that.

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Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg

If I recall correctly, we added about 4 off field positions and bumped the entire coaching staff's pay that off season. So, outside of all the rumored "Mullen to XXX" (of which the only one I really believe maybe is Miami), maybe Mullen felt that the best investment was in more resources instead of another half mill a year for him.

Fact is no one knows beyond message board rumors. I still think the real tension between Dan and Stick was about investing in off field staff and coaches salaries. That is somewhere Dan knows we were getting our clock cleaned. Dan pried more money out of Scott after '15 and we start landing guys like T Buck. I think any looking Dan did was not about his salary, it was about finding a place that was all in for what it takes beyond the HC to win at this level - or using it as leverage to get what he wanted from Strick.

Ask yourself this - if the "come to Jesus meeting" took place, how in the hell would a coach negotiate a big raise coming of a 6-7 season and the addition of a million dollar DC? I sure wish my boss would have that type of a come to Jesus with me. You had a shitty year. Here, have a big raise. Here, have more money for your department so you can focus more on what you like about your job. Here, go hire a bad ass hot secretary to run the staff so you don't have to bother. Yeah, that's a come to jesus meeting.

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Your theory about diverting money to recruiting specialists makes sense- except if that was the case we would have still given Dan an EXTENSION. By not giving Dan an extension we not only didn't give him a raise- we made his buyout cheaper.

Of course Dan was looking around to better himself- and honestly that's fine. Most people probably do that. I think that's good in a way because I think since that happened it showed Dan how good he has it here- and that has helped him commit to us even more. That said, if you are looking for a job it's probably not a great idea to publicize it no matter what business your in. Dan's agent didn't handle that very well- and Dan changed agents as he should have.

I explained how the negotiation went- Dan tells them he wants an extension. Keenum and Cohen say OK BUT here's what you have to do in order to get it. It probably wasn't even heated at all. Dan didn't get his extension until after he: Won the Egg Bowl, won our bowl game, improved his recruiting class, re-assigned Sallach and hired Looney, and hired Grantham. THEN he got the raise. He did what he was supposed to do and we followed up by keeping our word. It's as simple as that- and again we're all the better for it.

And to add- it would be pretty sorry of MSU to tell him to hire a real DC and not tell him that we would pay whatever. That would almost be setting him up for failure- which wouldn't have been right.

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Originally Posted by Turfdawg67

That's at least the 2nd time you've mentioned Stricklin and suggested he left before he was asked to leave. Strickin left because he was WANTED at UF and they doubled his MSU salary to $1M. With bonuses, he could almost triple his salary to $1.4M. Enough with your fictitious, covert "come to Jesus" meetings.

Good for Dan not playing players for reasons he deems necessary for the growth of the football team AND for the player himself. There's a plethora of things that go on that we as fans are not privy to and thus we make our own assumptions... and if we say them enough, they seem to become the truth.

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You may believe what you wish and choose to believe. Interesting that the Stricklin to Florida rumors heated up right after we lost to South Alabama.

By the way, I'm not the only person on this board that has said this. There's some pretty reputable posters on here that would probably back up some of the things I've said.

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Originally Posted by smootness

I will never believe our administration sat down with Mullen and gave him any kind of 'wake-up call' or ultimatum. That seems absurd on its face.

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MSU has been having meetings with every coach at the end of their season going back to the Larry Templeton days at least. You really think annual reviews are "absurd"? Almost every business in America does them. One of the things that are talked about in them are ways to improve. No one ever said he was given an "ultimatum". He wasn't going to be fired or anything like that. But had he not made some changes he would have been down that path in a few years.

Of course, you wouldn't believe me if I told you our colors are maroon and white and would argue that point for days so believe whatever and be willfully ignorant.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

MSU has been having meetings with every coach at the end of their season going back to the Larry Templeton days at least. You really think annual reviews are "absurd"? Almost every business in America does them. One of the things that are talked about in them are ways to improve. No one ever said he was given an "ultimatum". He wasn't going to be fired or anything like that. But had he not made some changes he would have been down that path in a few years.

Of course, you wouldn't believe me if I told you our colors are maroon and white and would argue that point for days so believe whatever and be willfully ignorant.

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What changes do you think our president and Cohen told Mullen to make? I personally find it ridiculous. I can see a meeting where they ask dan what he needs to take the program up a notch... which led to more money for a D.C. (Grantham). If Cohen and our president sat Mullen (our best coach ever) down and told him how to run his program, I feel certain Mullen would've told them to stick it. Mullen doesn't need miss state to be a successful HC.

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Originally Posted by msstate7

What changes do you think our president and Cohen told Mullen to make? I personally find it ridiculous. I can see a meeting where they ask dan what he needs to take the program up a notch... which led to more money for a D.C. (Grantham). If Cohen and our president sat Mullen (our best coach ever) down and told him how to run his program, I feel certain Mullen would've told them to stick it. Mullen doesn't need miss state to be a successful HC.

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So, you don't believe me but you do believe that they would have a meeting where they would tell him to take it up a notch? LOL. I don't think the meeting was even that threatening- I think it was just how can we improve the football program and ways to do that. And I've already said what they told him to change at least twice in this thread.

1. Hire a legit DC.
2. Improve his recruiting by bringing in assistants like Looney and by improving our class.

No one has said that Cohen and Keenum are telling him how to "run his program". Do I think they make suggestions? Yeah. Dan respects Cohen a lot because Cohen has coached before and they have been friends for as long as Dan has been at MSU. Keenum used to play football himself at the JUCO level- so he has a little more credibility than some in the football arena. It's actually a really good situation for us. Are they telling him who to play or who to hire?- no.

As far as your last sentence- the thing is we don't need Dan to be a successful football program either. (I'm sure THAT is going to be taken completely out of context especially by you) That said, because we do have a relationship it's good for BOTH of us if we're successful TOGETHER. It's a two way street. By that I mean MSU supports Dan by giving him suggestions on how to improve the program and also by giving him resources- money- to implement those suggestions. And I don't think Dan is as arrogant as you think he is- otherwise he wouldn't have made changes- including demoting his ex-college roommate who had been on staff for eight years.

And I'm actually happy that they pretty much made the changes and that they have worked- so you can be willfully ignorant as well if you choose to.

Again- the proof is in the pudding. No extension after 9 wins in 2015 and an extension after major changes were made in 2016 despite fewer wins.